| Name |
Cecilia Margaretta Thrale |
| Christening |
1777 |
Godparents:- Miss Owen,
- Mrs Hester D'Avenent 1748-1822,
- William Seward 1747 -1799.
|
| Birth |
8 Feb 1777 |
Streatham Park, Streatham, Surrey, England  |
| Gender |
Female |
| Note |
Jul 1779 |
Aged two, her mother wrote in Thraliana …Cæcilia improves daily and is a lovely girl of the fair delicate kind … their is not a fault to find with either of them person or Mind; and I thank God who gave them me, their health is excellent. |
| Residence |
4 Jan 1782 |
Harley Street, Middlesex, England |
After Henry Thrale’s death, Hester Lynch Thrale née Salusbury rented a house in Harley Street between January and March 1782, where she lived with her daughters. The house was too small to accommodate Samuel Johnson. On 4 January 1782, Hester Thrale wrote in Thraliana …I have taken a house in harley street for these three months next ensuing, & hope to have some society–not company tho’; crouds are out of the question, but people will not come hither on short days, & ‘tis too dull to live all alone so. the world will watch me at first, & think i come o’ husband hunting for myself or my fair daughter: but when i have behaved prettily for a while, they will change their mind. |
| Medical |
28 Mar 1783 |
Her mother wrote in Thraliana…Poor Cæcilia has got the Hooping Cough. |
| Medical |
14 Apr 1783 |
Her mother wrote in Thraliana after contracting measles …Poor Cæcilia and Harriett; I fear those poor babies will dye, notwithstanding the efforts of Jebb & Pepys to relieve them:—Thank Heav’n they are with Dear Mrs Ray. Sir Richard Jebb physician to the King 1742-1830. Pepys physician to the King 1729-87. Mrs Ray Proprietor of Russell House School opposite St. Leonard's Church Streatham. |
| Education |
1784 |
| When her mother left England, Cecilia was left with tutor Miss Nicholson. |
| School |
Summer 1786 |
| She moved to Mrs Stevenson’s school in Queens Square, London. |
| Note |
29 Apr 1787 |
Aged 12, her mother wrote in Thraliana of her second husband Gabriel Piozzi’s relationship with Cecilia …The little Cecllia is his Darling, & while She is at School will honour us with her Visits no doubt, but her Tenderness will end there I trust, as her Spirit is the same to that of her Sisters. Well! never mind, my heart is vastly more impenetrable to their unmerited Cruelty than it was when last in England. Let them look to their Affairs, & I shall look to mine: the World is wide enough I’ll warrant it for Miss Thrales and Mrs Piozzi. |
| Physical Description |
30 Dec 1789 |
Aged 12 her mother wrote in Thraliana …Cæcilia grows more amiable, She has some fondness, & much flexibility:Amica di ognuno, Amica di nessuno should be Cæcilia’s Motto. We teize her, & say She is like her own favourite Spaniel, who fawns upon everybody, & upon ev’ry body alike—but She says Phillis has her Distinctions.
'Amica di ognuno, Amica di nessuno' translates as 'Friend of everyone, friend of no-one'. |
| Physical Description |
3 Jan 1791 |
Aged fourteen, her mother wrote in Thraliana …Every body tells me that Cæcilia Thrale improves, & so I think She does; tho’ not because they say so: were She less altered for the better, no less would be said about her perfections I suppose. but She has lost much of the savage Manners She brought from School: is tamer, & handsomer, and grows very like what her Sisters were when they lived with me.—
The Exterior is best tho’ with Cecilia; her Mind recovers more slowly than her Person, from a severe Shock certainly given to Both in the Year 1783 by the Hooping Cough & Measles together, when her younger Sister lost that Life which was preserved to this Girl only by Sir Lucas Pepys’s extreme Skill & Care.
She will however be a fine Woman, with Accomplishments & Beauty & Virtue enough to accompany forty or fifty Thousand Pounds—although her Memory is far from strong, and her Spirit of Application to any Study much too weak ever to attain at Eminence I think.
Her Temper when unthwarted is sweet, but She arms against opposition even instinctively; and will do nothing because She is commanded, but the contrary, while the same surly Independent Soul inhabits her Bosom with equal Rapacity to obtain, and Rage to appropriate, as in the hearts of any of her Family.
Cecilia seems however to love Mr Piozzi—in her way of loving—but no one accuses her of partiality towards me I believe, whose Company She studiously avoids; & I therefore say nothing, but provide Refuges for her to recur to, that are no less improving Companions than myself—while She has Miss Weston, Miss Williams, Miss Lees, or Dear Siddons only for Confidents—She can hear of nothing but Literature, so I care not.
The Greatheeds too, so much her favourites! with whom can She be better? We keep no Company but that by which something must be obtained to a Young Mind, of Knowledge or of Virtue.— |
| Note |
27 Jan 1791 |
Hester Lynch Thrale wrote in Thraliana …Here’s my Birthday returned; the first I have spent at Streatham for many Years, and quite the happiest I ever did spend there: Our daughter who lives in the house with us—Cecilia—much improved, & growing handsome as well as tall & rich; good as her Neighbours too, for ought I see; though without much Love of Study, or Regard for me, all goes well between us; and her Papa as She calls him, has a very solid kindness & true Goodwill towards her. I find he is of Opinion that Cator is no honest Guardian to those Girls, but I suppose they would rather be robbed by him, than saved by us. |
| Godparent / sponsor |
Aug 1794 |
| Hester Lynch Thrale née Salusbury became Godmother to Cecilia Siddons, daughter of Sarah Siddons. Cecilia Siddons was named after Cecilia Margaretta Thrale. |
| Note |
1 Sep 1794 |
Aged 17, mother wrote in Thraliana …Cecilia does not indeed trouble herself to disguise her Sentiments, She has, and She shews She has, an ineffable Contempt for us both; but why do I say of us? She despises every body, I know, except her own Sisters & her Father’s Family (I suppose‚ twas they taught her to hate us so, She was only indifferent to us till She knew them—but’twas an easy Lesson to any of the Family), Cecilia is however a very charitable Girl, and loves the poor: which will produce her many Blessings I humbly hope, and certainly will cover a Multitude of Faults—for the rest, one can only say with Andromache—Youth and Prosperity have made her vain. |
| Property |
1821 |
78 West Street, Brighton, Sussex, England |
| Inherited from her mother Hester |
| Note |
1832 |
Thrale Almshouses (1832-1930), Streatham High Road, Streatham, Surrey, England |
| The four daughters of Henry & Hester Thrale established almshouses for poor single women of Streatham. |
| Census |
6 Jun 1841 |
Sillwood Place, Brighton, Brighthelmstone, Sussex, England |
| Age: 60 |
| Probate |
Autumn 1857 |
| Her collection of curiosities and relics of her father's and Dr. Samuel Johnsonwas sold at Silwood Lodge, Brighton. |
| Death |
1 May 1857 |
Brighton, Sussex, England [1] |
Address:
Brighton Railway Station |
| Burial |
Unknown |
Saint Leonards Church, Streatham, Surrey, England |
| Association |
Cecilia Margarita Battiste Piozzi (Relationship: Cecilia Margarita Battiste Piozzi was named in honour of Cecilia Margaretta) |
| Notes |
- Cecilia Margaretta was 4 years old. when her father died and 7 years old. seven when her mother remarried.
|
| Person ID |
I96 |
UK Thrale family |
| Last Modified |
13 Jul 2024 |
| Father |
Henry Thrale, M.P., b. Between 1724 and 1730, Harrow Corner, Southwark, Surrey, England d. 4 Apr 1781, Grosvenor Square, Middlesex, England (Age 57 years) |
| Mother |
Hester Lynch Salusbury, b. 16 Jan 1741, Bodvel, Caernarvonshire, Wales d. 2 May 1821, Clifton, Gloucestershire, England (Age 80 years) |
| Note |
1762 |
Offley, Hertfordshire, England |
Henry was invited to Offley Place by Hester’s uncle, Judge Sir Thomas Salusbury and was introduced to Hester Thrale who was aged 20 or 21. Henry was a solid respectable man who was kindly towards Hester and she wrote that Henry was …Nearly the handsomest man in England. However, she did not want to marry him. Hester appealed to her father upon his return. John Salusbury had no intention of marrying his daughter to Henry, as Henry's father and grandfather had lived in the cottage now being used by his brother, Sir Thomas Salusbury as a dog kennel. John Salusbury quarrelled with his brother Sir Thomas and took his wife and daughter to London. Sir Thomas proposed their marriage whilst her father was away in Ireland with George Montagu-Dunk, 2nd Earl of Halifax, President of the Board of Trade. This was agreed by her mother after uncle Sir Thomas promised to make a settlement in her favour of £5,000 if Hester married Henry. |
| Note |
18 Dec 1762 |
Hester's father, John Salusbury died suddenly, leaving:- the North Wales Bach-y-graig estate to his wife, and
- £5,000 to his daughter Hester.
Hester, later speculated that his death might have been hastened by irritation at her proposed marriage to Henry Thrale; and Sir Thomas’s intention to remarry, as this ultimately resulted in Hester being disinherited from Offley Place. |
| Note |
28 Jun 1763 |
Letter of request for a proposal meetingHenry wrote to Hester and her mother asking to call on them.;Mr. Thrale presents His most respectful compliments to Mrs. & Miss Salusbury & wishes to God He could of communicated His Sentiments to them last night, which is absolutely impossible for Him to do to any other person breathing; He therefore most ardently begs to see Them at any Hour this afternoon, & he will at all Events immediately enter upon this very interesting Subject, & when once begun, there is no Danger of His wandering upon any other: in short, see them, He must, for He assures them, with the greatest truth & Sincerity, that They have murder’d Peace & Happiness at Home. Almost two weeks later they were married. |
| Note |
9 Oct 1763 |
DowryHenry Thrale met Hester’s maternal grandfather, Sir Thomas Salusbury and agreed upon Hester’s dowry. It included:
- £10,000 to Hester from Sir Thomas Salusbury;
- £700 a year for Hester from her father’s estate;
- legacies from her mother and aunts worth £3,000;
- £200 a year from Henry’s Crowmarsh Battle estate. The remainder of farm income went to Henry. The farm would in future be administered by two trustees for a period of 99 years
On Henry’s death:- Hester’s income from Crowmarsh Battle farm would double;
- she would get a lump sum of £13,400; and
- provision would be made for trust and inheritances for any children that they may have.
|
| Marriage |
11 Oct 1763 |
Saint Anne's Church, Soho, Middlesex, England [2] |
| Note |
Jul 1774 |
Wales |
| From July to September 1774, Dr. Samuel Johnson and the Thrales toured North Wales. For Hester Thrale, the journey was personally significant, revealing cultural tensions with Johnson and influencing her writing. Johnson kept a diary which has since been published. |
| Note |
14 Sept 1775 |
Paris, Île-de-France, France |
 |
The Thrales tour of France, 14 September to 14 November 1775.
Henry Thrale, MP, was invited to Paris by his friend Hugh Percy, 1st Duke of Northumberland, who was serving as the British ambassador to France. From September to November 1775, a group embarked on a tour of France, visiting Paris, Versailles, and various monasteries and convents. The traveling party consisted of:
- Henry Thrale, the wealthy brewer and Member of Parliament;
- Hester Thrale, Henry's wife and a notable diarist;
- Queeney Thrale, their eldest child;
- Dr. Samuel Johnson, the renowned lexicographer and writer; and
- Giuseppe Baretti, Queeney's Italian tutor and Johnson's friend.
The trip included:
|
| Note |
11 Oct 1776 |
Baronet Sir William Weller Pepys (1740-1825) wrote these verses to mark their 13th wedding anniversary.Give me to bless Domestick Life
With sweet Repose secure from Strife;
(Cries every Pedant in a College)
A Wife not over-stockt with Knowlege;
This—every Fool who loves to quote
What Parrot-like he learn’d by rote;
And every Coxcomb whose Pretence
To Wisdom marks his want of Sense,
And all good Huswives skill’d in Darning
Who rail with much Contempt at Larning:
And all who place their Sovreign Good in
The Composition of a Pudding
Repeat with such Triumphant Air
Such deep Sagacity—you’d swear
That Knowledge among Woman kind
Was deadliest Poyson to the Mind;
A Crime—which venial if conceal’d
Like Theft at Sparta,—if reveal’d,
The Guilty stamps with such disgrace,
No Culprit dares to Show her Face.
But tell me You, who dar’d despise
These vulgar Maxims—who from Eyes
Which well might grace the loveliest Fair,
Turn’d not because bright Sense beam’d there;
But—vent’rous Deed!—in Marriage sought
A Mind with Stores of Knowledge fraught;
Tell me through all these thirteen Years,
Through varying Scenes of hopes and Fears;
Could Ignorance more faithful prove?
Could Folly’s Self more warmly love?
Then long may this Auspicious Morn
At each still happier Year’s Return
Tell—what thy Sweet Experience shews,
That Head and Heart are friend—not Foes. |
| Note |
6 Jul 1777 |
Dr. Samuel Johnson in a letter to Hester Thrale, said …I know no man… who is more master of his wife and family than Thrale. If he but holds up a finger, he is obeyed. |
| Note |
10 Sept 1777 |
Hester wrote in Thraliana… As this is Thraliana—in good Time—I will now write Mr Thrale’s Character in it: it is not because I am in good or ill Humour with him or he with me, for we are not capricious People, but have I believe the same Opinion of each other at all Places and Times. Mr Thrale’s Person is manly, his Countenance agreeable, his Eyes steady and of the deepest Blue: his Look neither soft nor severe, neither sprightly nor gloomy, but thoughtful and Intelligent: his address-is neither caressive nor repulsive, but unaffectedly civil and decorous; and his Manner more completely free from every kind of Trick or Particularity than I ever saw any person’s—he is a Man wholly as I think out of the Power of Mimickry. He loves Money & is diligent to obtain it; but he loves Liberality too, & is willing enough both to give generously & spend fashionably. His Passions either are not strong, or else he keeps them under such Command that they seldom disturb his Tranquillity or his Friends, & it must I think be something more than common which can affect him strongly either with Hope, Fear Anger Love or Joy. His regard for his Father’s Memory is remarkably great, and he has been a most exemplary Brother; though when the house of his favourite Sister was on Fire, & we were alarmed with the Account of it in the Night, I well remember that he never rose, but bidding the Servant who called us, go to her Assistance; quietly turned about & slept to his usual hour. I must give another Trait of his Tranquillity on a different Occasion; he had built great Casks holding 1000 Hogsheads each, & was much pleased with their Profit & Appearance—One Day however he came down to Streatham as usual to dinner & after hearing & talking of a hundred trifles—but I forgot says he to tell you how one of my great Casks is burst & all the Beer run out. Mr Thrale’s Sobriety, & the Decency of his Conversation being wholly free from all Oaths Ribaldry and Profaneness make him a Man exceedingly comfortable to live with, while the easiness of his Temper and slowness to take Offence add greatly to his Value as a domestic Man: Yet I think his Servants do not much love him, and I am not sure that his Children feel much Affection for him: low People almost all indeed agree to abhorr him, as he has none of that officious & cordial Manner which is universally required by them—nor any Skill to dissemble his dislike of their Coarseness—with Regard to his Wife, tho’ little tender of her Person, he is very partial to her Understanding,—but he is obliging to nobody; & confers a Favour less pleasingly than many a Man refuses to confer one. This appears to me to be as just a Character as can be given of the Man with whom I have now lived thirteen Years, and tho’ he is extremely reserved and uncommunicative, yet one must know something of him after so long Acquaintance. Johnson has a very great Degree of Kindness & Esteem for him, & says if he would talk more, his Manner would be very completely that of a perfect Gentleman. |
| Note |
13 Apr 1779 |
Hester Thrale wrote in Thraliana … In 1779, Hester, who had also lost several children, was unhappy in the thought that she had ceased to be appreciated by her husband. She became jealous of his regard for Sophy Streatfeild of Chiddingstone (1754-1835), a rich widow's daughter. |
| Note |
5 Apr 1781 |
Shortly after the death of Henry Thrale, Hester Thrale wrote…Streatham. I have now appointed three Days a Week to attend at the Counting house, & wish I could defecate my Mind of Borough Dirt, when I pass the Laystalls at the Stones End; but it will not be yet, it will not be– > The vile Ideas where I fly pursue: Rise in the Grove, even in the Thicket rise, Stain all my Soul, and grovel in my Eyes.
If an Angel from Heaven had told me 20 Years ago, that the Man I knew by the Name of Dictionary Johnson should one Day become Partner with me in a great Trade, & that we should jointly or separately sign Notes Draughts &c. for 3 or 4 Thousand Pounds of a Morning, how unlikely it would have seemed ever to happen!— unlikely is no Word tho’—it would have seemed incredible: neither of us then being worth a Groat God knows, & both as immeasurably removed from Commerce, as Birth Literature & Inclination could set us. Johnson however; who desires above all other Good the Accumulation of new Ideas, is but too happy with his present Employment; & the Influence I have over him added to his own solid Judgment and Regard for Truth, will at last find it in a small degree difficult to win him from the dirty Delight of seeing his Name in a new Character flaming away at the bottom of Bonds & Leases. |
| Note |
12 Oct 1781 [3] |
Hester Thrale wrote in Thraliana…Yesterday was my Wedding Day; it was a melancholy thing to me to pass it without the Husband of my Youth. |
| Note |
11 Oct 1787 [3] |
On their wedding anniversary, Hester wrote in Thraliana…Why do the people say I never loved my first husband? ’tos a very unjust conjecture. This day on which 24 years ago I was married to him never returns without bringing with it many a tender Remembrance: though ’twas on that Evening when we retired together that I was first alone with Mr. Thrale for five minutes in my whole life. Ours was a match of mere Prudence; and common good Liking, without the smallest Pretensions to passion on either Side: I knew no more of him than any other Gentleman who came to the House, nor did he ever profess other Attachment to me, than such as Esteem of my Character, & Convenience from my Fortune produced. I really had never past five whole Minutes Tête a Tête with him in my life till the Evening of our Wedding Day,—& he himself has said so a Thousand Times. yet God who gave us to each other, knows I did love him dearly; & what honour I can ever do to his Memory shall be done, for he was very generous to me. |
| Residence |
From January 1781 - March 1789 |
Grosvenor Square, Middlesex, England |
| Note |
21 Jul 1813 |
Queeney in a letter to Fanny Burney wrote …Do you know what my opinion is? that my mother hated my father. She loved him certainly, as everybody did, for his good qualities and his generosity; but she did not like him, nor any man in the world, well enough to desire to be alone with him. |
| Histories |
| Pets of Henry & Hester Thrale
The Thrales' love of animals is evident in both their writings. The Thrales' pets including dogs, cats, birds, chickens, ducks, rabbits, an aviary (including canaries, finches, and parrots) and a monkey, were an important part of their family, and they brought them a great deal of joy. |
| Family ID |
F46 |
Group Sheet | Family Chart |
| Family |
John Meredith Mostyn, b. 1775, Segrwyd, Denbighshire, Wales d. 19 May 1807, Bath, Somerset, England (Age 32 years) |
| Marriage |
8 Jun 1795 |
Gretna Green, Dumfriesshire, Scotland |
| Note |
9 Jun 1795 |
Cecilia wrote a letter to her mother saying …We arrived safe here yesterday evening after an amazing long journey as you know & faster even than the mail—we were married immediately, stay here all today & set out on our road to Llewesog Lodge tomorrow.
Hester Thrale’s reaction to this in Thraliana was …;Oh Lord! Oh Lord! Mosty & Cecilia are run away to Scotland sure enough, and here is Mr Piozzi in an Agony about his Honour wch he fancies injured by the step, Susan & Sophyare in Care for the Money which they unjustly fear is endanger’d; Miss Thrale behaves best, & I suffer most—on Acct of her Health & Youth & Inexperience—Oh my poor Cecy!—for the 1st five Minutes I knew not but Drummond might have tricked her off with him pretending to be the other: but No, She is in safe & honourable Hands, and happy with her Dear Mostyn at Llewessog Lodge, where all seem rejoyced to receive & court her Attention.—This Business then is happily over, & I might sleep if Nervous Complaints did not hinder me—for now the other Girls are kind & good, & stuff Cecy, so do I, with bridal Presents; and nobody is otherwise than happy & content.
Fedele & costante, felice e contento as my master says. 'Fedele & costante, felice e contento' translates as 'Faithful & constant, happy and content'. |
| Note |
17 Jun 1795 |
She wrote to her mother, from Llewesog, that she had been…Frightened into fits on her wedding night, and that her husband had kindly and considerately got Dr. Haygarth to prescribe for her at Chester. I am got quite well now & am learning to behave better & an only as usual not to hurried & flurried but left to myself by Dr. H’s orders & then I shall soon be as good as he himself could wish. |
| Note |
11 Oct 1796 |
Her mother wrote in Thraliana about an alleged illegitimate child sired by Mostyn …Cecy Mostyn is a foolish Girl, & cannot rule her own Household — all our unfashionable Neighbours cry Shame! to see Mason her Maid with Child by the Master of the Mansion & the Gay Mistress protecting this Partner in her Husband’s Person because it is the Way She says; & all those who understand genteel Life think lightly of such Matters. When I offered to speak my antiquated Sentiments upon the Subject, She forbid me (smartly) to say another Word about it; & told my Maid that if Mrs Piozzi plagued her any more concerning such Nonsense She would leave the House into wch She never came to say the Truth except for mere Conveniency. |
| Note |
12 Oct 1804 |
Her mother wrote in Thraliana of Cecilia's miscarriage of a daughter after falling from a horse …Cecilia Mostyn has been here on a Three Days Visit & made herself as it appeared to me, studiously agreeable. cecy complains of her Husband grievously, accuses him of gross Avarice and rough Behaviour—scruples not to confess her dislike of the Man & her Resolution to live with him only till The Boys go to School: yet something says to my heart that half of this is Fable, & spoken with Design of some sort to dig out how far I should grieve at, or resnt his Treatment of her if it was absolutely & truly what She represents.
I listn’d however with Expressions of Wonder only, & just such Indignation as one could not avoid—Cecy is false as Water— and since She told Mr Mostyn long ago that I wished his Neck broke when such a word has never cross’d my Tongue—what will she not say now? I do not like a Tête a Tête with any but Truth-tellers—& what this fashionable Lady says, must be taken with a Grain of Salt.
The worst is I cannot sleep since the Visit—such staring tales has She related—& of poor Susan too!! Who can believe as fast as Cis can talk??— |
| Note |
12 Oct 1804 |
Her mother wrote in Thraliana of Cecilia's miscarriage of a daughter after falling from a horse …Cecilia Mostyn has been here on a Three Days Visit & made herself as it appeared to me, studiously agreeable. cecy complains of her Husband grievously, accuses him of gross Avarice and rough Behaviour—scruples not to confess her dislike of the Man & her Resolution to live with him only till The Boys go to School: yet something says to my heart that half of this is Fable, & spoken with Design of some sort to dig out how far I should grieve at, or resnt his Treatment of her if it was absolutely & truly what She represents.
I listn’d however with Expressions of Wonder only, & just such Indignation as one could not avoid—Cecy is false as Water— and since She told Mr Mostyn long ago that I wished his Neck broke when such a word has never cross’d my Tongue—what will she not say now? I do not like a Tête a Tête with any but Truth-tellers—& what this fashionable Lady says, must be taken with a Grain of Salt.
The worst is I cannot sleep since the Visit—such staring tales has She related—& of poor Susan too!! Who can believe as fast as Cis can talk??— |
| Note |
1805 |
| Cecilia and John separated in 1805, after their sons were placed in Mr Davies' Streatham School. She took residence in Cheltenham and he lived in Bath, for the health improving spas. |
| Note |
Autumn 1806 |
| They were reconciled, but separated again in autumn 1806. |
| Children |
|
| Family ID |
F57 |
Group Sheet | Family Chart |
| Last Modified |
17 Jun 2024 |
Thrale/Thrall history
1777 - 1857 (80 years)
: Address
: Location
: City/Town
: County/Shire
: State/Province
: Country
: Not Set